Gino Padula

Position: Left Back Born: Buenos Aires, 11 July 1976 Signed from: Queen's Park Rangers, 6 July 2005

Debut: - Sold to: -


Carlton Palmer

Position: Midfield Born: Oldbury Signed from: Southampton, January 1999

Debut: 30 January 1999 vs Everton Sold to: Coventry City, September 1999

When signed by Ron Atkinson, Palmer seemed exactly the sort of player we needed to add a bit of steel and stability to a desperately sagging midfield which had eased us inexorably towards relegation (God, how depressingly often we have said that between the late 90s and now). He didn't keep us up, but he did look a decent player. He has long been unfairly maligned in English football (largely because Graham Taylor picked him for England, which was definitely a class too far), but the Bambi long legs and the ungainly style mask a pretty good player.

When we went down and David Platt arrived, I expected Palmer to act as the Senior Pro in the side - professional, excellent example to the young players, an ideal man to hold us together as we rebuilt. In fact he was completely the opposite. Platt left him out of the side for a pre-season friendly at Bradford City - after all, that is exactly what friendlies are for; to enable the manager to take a look at all of his squad to make the best possible assessment of them.

Not for Palmer, obviously; clearly he considered that he should be an automatic selection even for friendlies. His teddy bear came flying out of the pram at Mach 3 and he stormed back to Nottingham. Platt, unsurprisingly, was completely unimpressed by this childish behaviour, and Carlton's days were clearly numbered. A couple of sub appearances, continued sulking and petulance from the lanky one - and then off to Coventry.

He is now manager of Mansfield Town, and always good for a quote...

Gary Parker

Position: Midfield Born: Oxford Signed from: Hull City, March 1988

Debut: 30 April 1988 vs Wimbledon Sold to: Aston Villa, November 1991

A much under-rated player, and also deeply involved in one of Clough's stranger decisions. Having acquired Parker in Spring 1988, Cloughie didn't play him until the turn of the year. He was an instant success - playing superbly on the left wing, he scored 13 goals between January and the end of the season. When we acquired the excellent John Sheridan in the close season to replace Neil Webb, all the fans looked forward to seeing Parker continuing in the same vein outside him.

Instead Clough decided Sheridan was no good and moved Parker into the middle. He did OK, but compare his 5 goals in an entire season with the previous year's efforts (plus the fact that Cloughie spent the season juggling players like Toddi Orlygsson and Brian Rice on the left) and it is easy to see why the fans were completely bemused.

Parker's greatest asset was probably his great "engine" - his ability to get up and down the pitch from box to box all game. This was probably best illustrated by one of his two goals in the Simod Cup final in 1989; picking the ball up on the edge of his own box, he simply set off upfield, outpaced the entire Everton defence and rammed it in.

Rumour has it, however, that he is... shall we say "talkative"? Opinionated, difficult? An awkward bugger, to be frank - and Cloughie never did hang onto them for long! Good player - but I still feel that we slightly wasted him after that blistering start.


Marco Pascolo

Position: Goalkeeper Born: Zurich Signed from: Cagliari, August 1997

Debut: 9 August 1997 vs Port Vale Sold to: FC Zurich, June 1999

Complete and utter pants.

Yet this guy has well over 60 international caps! He was signed by Harry Bassett and started the 1997-98 season as first choice. It didn't last long. Pascolo didn't speak much English, and the little he did speak clearly didn't contain such rudimentary goalkeeping words as "Mine" or "Keeper's". As for coming off his line - isn't that what defenders are for?

As exemplified by a home game against Man City in September 1997. We had won the first 6 games of the season and were steaming along very nicely. Frank Clark's City had started the season all over the place. They thrashed us, and I can still see the look of horror on Steve Chettle's face as they scored the first goal - Lee Bradbury hardly believing his luck as Pascolo stayed rooted to his line as though his feet were encased in cement while Bradbury beat the offside trap, ran 35 yards and had time to wave to his Mum and read War & Peace before thrashing it past Pascolo.

You could see any confidence that the defence might have had in their keeper drain out of them on the spot - and by the end of the game Pascolo and Chettle were close to shaking their fists at one another.

Pascolo was dropped forthwith and nobody had the slightest confidence in him from that moment on. The worst keeper I have ever had the misfortune to see in a Forest shirt (though I suppose there is always Mick Harby...)


Dennis Peacock

Position: Goalkeeper Born: Lincoln Signed from: Apprentice, July 1972

Debut: 28 April 1973 vs Brighton & Hove Albion Sold to: Doncaster Rovers, July 1975

Reasonable but nothing special keeper who was reserve to Jim Barron and then John Middleton in the MacKay and Brown years of the mid-1970s. Signed from Lincoln, sold to Donny Rovers; hmmm. Probably tells you most of what you need to know!


Stuart Pearce

Position: Left Back Born: Shepherd's Bush Signed from: Coventry City, May 1985

Debut: 17 August 1985 vs Luton Town Sold to: Newcastle United, August 1997

There has never been a Forest player who was such a hero to the fans - and there almost certainly never will be again. The European teams had many players who achieved more for Forest, but not even any of them matched Pearce for adulation from the fans. Signed in a joint deal with Ian Butterworth before the 1985-86 season, "Psycho" was at the time considered the lesser of the two players - but that didn't last too long!

Pearce's phenomenal thunderous tackling, all-out commitment and rampaging runs up the left wing immediately endeared him to the Trent End. He was uncompromising (though rarely dirty, unlike his West Ham contemporary equivalent Julian Dicks), he was exciting to watch and he was inspirational to everyone around him - in latter years watching him scream some motivation into Ian Woan was a constant highlight! A born Captain, and blessed with the ability to extract noise from the Trent End like no-one before or since.

Early on in his Forest career, though he regularly created havoc in storming forward up the left (Pearce in full flight was one of the great sights of 1990s football), he didn't actually score that many goals; only 5 non-penalties in his first 3 seasons. But then he learned to take free kicks (training with Johnny Metgod can only have helped!). From 1988 onwards he scored goals at a prodigious rate for a full back, often with screaming free kicks from distance which left assorted keepers flat-footed - even when they knew where the ball was going, if Pearce got it right there was simply nothing they could do about it.

The stick he got from opposition fans after his famous Italia 90 penalty miss only endeared him to us all the more (ironically, if I had to pick anyone to take a penalty for my life, Pearce would be second only to John Robertson) - it was only when he redeemed himself for England in Euro 96 that the rest of the country seemed to wake up to the gem that he was. But we knew all along.

And then, as if he wasn't popular enough already, when Forest were relegated in 1992-93, Psycho elected to stay in Nottingham. He was Captain of his country by this stage and absolutely at the peak of his game, so no-one could have criticised him if he had moved to stay in the Premiership, but he stayed to get us back up again and the fans loved him for it.

Unfortunately for Stuart, management was thrust upon him far earlier than he would have wished, and after a brilliant start (Manager of the Month after 4 weeks in charge) it all went wrong. He moved to Newcastle, then to West Ham and finally to the First Division championship with Manchester City (where he missed a penalty in his final game as a pro that would have taken him to 100 league goals) - and was even recalled to the England squad at the age of 36. Had he not broken his leg twice in the 1999-2000 season, he would undoubtedly have been in Kevin Keegan's squad for Euro 2000, and he would not have let anyone down.

A move into management appeared inevitable, and gradually he bcame involved with the England Under-18 set-up, then became Keegan's assistant at Maine Road, before finally taking the reins in 2005. Early appearances suggest that City fans are in for some fun, though it remains to be seen whether his brand of clenched-fist motivation works as well off the pitch as it did on it.

Whatever, he will always retain a special place in City Ground affections - the deafening noise that greeted him on his final competitive appearance there, in the blue of Manchester City, was an extraordinary tribute to a player who never looked right in anything other than Garibaldi red.


Steve Peplow

Position: Forward Born: Liverpool Signed from: Swindon Town, August 1973

Debut: 2 October 1973 vs Swindon Town Sold to: Tranmere Rovers, July 1974

Signed by Dave Mackay in the 1973 close season, Peplow scored freely in pre-season friendlies. When it came to the real things, however, he didn't look like scoring in any of his 5 games. Mackay then got the sack, Allan Brown didn't fancy him (a rare display of good judgement on Brown's part), and off he went.


James Perch

Position: Defender / Midfield Born: Mansfield, 28 September 1985 Signed from: Academy, August 2004

Debut: 7 August 2004 vs Wigan Athletic Sold to: -

Young central defender tossed earlier than expected into first team action on the opening day of the 2004-05 season as injuries to Michael Dawson and John Thompson combined with a suspension for Wes Morgan to stretch Joe Kinnear's squad to the limit. He acquitted himself pretty well, especially as an emergency full back, but gradually found himself being used more as a defensive midfield player as the season progressed. Having started the season hoping to get the occasional appearance as a sub, he found himself being highly-praised by all three managers of the 2004-05 season (Kinnear, Harford and Megson) and playing 20 games - he even scored a goal (off his shins at Donny Rovers in the League Cup!).

HIs relative lack of size suggests that his future lies in midfield, but he has obvious talent; time on the ball, an eye for a pass and surpising maturity for a young man playing out of position. Definitely one for the future and, with Ross Gardner and Kris Commons, a rare shaft of light in the most dismal of seasons.


Gianluca Petrachi

Position: Midfield Born: Lecce Signed from: Perugia, August 1999

Debut: 7 August 1999 vs Ipswich Town Sold to: Released, July 2001

A shame, this one - he could have been a hero. After half a dozen games of the 1999-2000 season most of us would have put money on it. A skilful attacking midfield player able to operate on either side, Luca eased himself into English football nicely enough, before exploding into action against Walsall at home. At the time I described his performance that day as "the best display of out-and-out wing play since the days of Robbo", and I stand by that assessment - he was superb.

Unfortunately that was about it. A couple of games later he was injured, then injured again less than 90 minutes after his come-back.... and then he appeared to lose interest. When he did play he was at half-cock, but most of the time he didn't play and we heard persistent rumours about how he was desperately home-sick. For whatever reason, anyway, even his infrequent reserve games hardly set the world on fire - and then he marched into the manager's office the morning after our final game of the season and announced that he was now fit and raring to go!

He went back to Perugia for 2000-2001, but even there only played a handful of games before returning to Nottingham in the summer to terminate his contract by mutual consent.

A great pity - he has the talent to have done great things here. Just not the attitude.


David Phillips

Position: Midfield Born: Wegberg, Germany Signed from: Norwich City, July 1993

Debut: 21 August 1993 vs Grimsby Town Sold to: Huddersfield Town, November 1997

A small, combative and skillful Welsh international midfield player blessed with a fierce shot, Phillips declined rapidly towards the end of his Forest career to the extent that most of the fans wished him on his way long before he actually went.

It is easy to forget, therefore, how much he gave us when he first arrived. Frank Clark signed him in his first close season, but he didn't get to start until late September, by which time a central midfield of Neil Webb (post-injury and pie consumption) and Kingsley Black (lightweight in the centre) was clearly the weakest part of the team. By the time 2 months had passed, the midfield consisted of Phillips, Gemmill and Bohinen, with Stone to the right and Black wide on the left - and we looked a totally different side; those 5 (with Ian Woan replacing Black at times and then Brian Roy in place of Gemmill once promotion had been achieved) formed the posse which fed Stan Collymore, and their skill, industry, passing ability and speed on the counter were too much for most sides.

Of that midfield, Phillips was the one who played deep, linking defence with attack and breaking things up when we didn't have the ball. And for a while he was excellent at it. But then gradually the years caught him up and Chris Bart-Williams was brought in to replace him in 1995-96. In the relegation season a year later Phillips fought his way back into the side, but he was well past it by this stage and the fans turned against him rather - hence the general lack of mourning when he was sold on.

Fair enough. But we shouldn't forget the couple of good seasons he gave us in what was, frankly, the last really good side we had at Forest.


David Platt

Position: Midfield Born: Chadderton Signed from: Unattached, July 1999

Debut: 4 September 1999 vs Walsall Sold to: Resigned, July 2001

Summer 1999. The club seemingly in complete disarray. Farcical relegation the previous season after the sale of two of our best players prompted the strike of the third, thus dooming us before a single ball was kicked (with the Board seemingly the only people in the entire country who couldn't see it coming). It was in this gloomy situation that we appointed David Platt, lest we forget it.

I do not propose to enter a discussion here of Platty's qualities as a manager - Forest fans have been disagreeing about those pretty much ever since he was appointed, many of them itching to see him sacked and unable to say a good word about him (even after he left), and about the same number anxious that he should be given time to sort out the total can of worms that he inherited from Ron Atkinson and slightly disappointed when he left 3 weeks before the start of the the new season, leaving us in the lurch just as he appeared to be making some progress. It did, however, seem strange that, if the manager that so many Forest fans appeared to regard with undisguised contempt really was as inept as they claimed, then why is it that in summer 2001 he was persistently linked with vacancies at West Ham, Southampton and Boro, and even with Villa where there wasn't even a vacancy - let alone with England Under-21, where he finally ended up?

Regardless of his merits as a manager, as a player I don't think many would disagree that it is a great shame that we didn't seen more of him. He was without question one of the best 2 or 3 midfield players of his generation, whose pace, power and stamina were coupled with a fabulous international goalscoring record.

However David's first season in charge meant that learning the management thing took up all of his time - he simply couldn't spare the time to keep fit enough to play on a regular basis. We saw him twice, once for less than 5 minutes as a sub, and the other for 90 minutes in a hideous game at Brammall Lane where the red mists descended over most of the Forest side, Platt included, after Nigel Quashie's controversial sending off. When Platt, not as physically sharp as in the past, horribly mistimed a tackle in the final minute to earn a red card for himself, he announced his retirement as a player (though Forest retained his registration)

Largely, though not entirely, he stuck to that decision. However, when injuries in midfield forced him to play a couple of games, he still showed us what a class act he remains. The pace had gone, but at Selhurst Park in August 2000, for 65 minutes he gave a consumate display of economy of movement, awareness, subtlety of passing and ability to involve players around him. He didn't waste a single ball and it was no coincidence that Forest went in at half time 3-0 up after simply tearing Palace apart. One of the goals was scored by Platt himself - a typical poacher's swivelling volley inside the box at a corner. His unbridled joyous reaction as he ran to the Forest fans to celebrate went a long way to convincing the doubters that, whatever some people might think of his managerial talent, you could not accuse him of not caring.

And then, finally, the endless arguments between Forest fans about whether Platt was inept, developing, never going to make a good manager as long as his arse pointed downwards, a future legend or perhaps a bit of all of the above... became irrelevant. Sven Goran Eriksson let it be known that he rated him highly, Howard Wilkinson was moved aside from England Under-21 and Platt was offered the post. We were less than impressed with the speed with which Platt snapped the FA's hands off, feeling rather that we'd had to put up with all the nonsense and pain of him learning his trade, but were not going to reap any of the benefits. However we felt, he was out of here at speed, replaced immediately by Paul Hart.


Calvin Plummer

Position: Midfield Born: Nottingham Signed from: Apprentice, February 1981 and again from Chesterfield, October 1987

Debut: 20 February 1982 vs Brighton & Hove Albion Sold to: Chesterfield, January 1984, then released May 1988

Had you remembered that he went and came back again? I certainly hadn't and, frankly, I cannot see what possessed Cloughie to give him another whirl!

Headless chicken of a winger who did at least have the ability to beat players and a reasonable finish. But on the whole not up to it. In his first spell at Forest Calvin was a brief part of the 1981-82 transition period after O'Neill, Francis and Birtles had gone but before Davenport, Hodge and Walsh had established themselves. His position (usually wide right) remained a problem one for a while, with Danny Wilson (yes, the manager Danny Wilson), Mark Proctor and Franz Thijssen all tried there without conspicuous success - eventually Steve Wigley sorted it out.

The second time around Calvin was a brief interregnum between Franz Carr and Gary Crosby - he actually did quite well here, scoring 4 goals in 11 games, but Cloughie got rid of him anyway (presumably because he was still as ordinary as the first time around).

Which kind of begs the question "Why on earth did we sign him again?"

Back to ... The Players : 1981 - 1982 : 1982 - 1983 : 1987 - 1988


Raimondo Ponte

Position: Midfield Born: Windisch, Switzerland Signed from: Grasshoppers Zurich, August 1980

Debut: 16 August 1980 vs Tottenham Hotspur Sold to: Bastia, July 1981

Forest's first attempt at a Swiss international, and frankly not a great deal more successful than the second one (see Marco Pascolo above).

Actually that is not quite fair - he was a great deal better than Pascolo (which wouldn't be hard). He was signed as part of the ongoing struggle to replace Archie Gemmill (see Stan Bowles, Jurgen Roeber etc), after impressing Clough and Taylor in Forest's two European Cup games against Grasshoppers 18 months before. He looked a reasonable player, but (not for the first or last time with European players coming to England) was simply overwhelmed by the pace and physical nature of English football. He also spent a fair amount of his single season injured - presumably for the same reason.

In general, therefore, he looked a sluggish but skilful fish out of water. Perhaps nowadays he might have prospered in the Premiership - but then he was nowhere near. (I can, however, still vividly hear John Motson trying to pronounce his name!)


Hugo Porfirio

Position: Midfield Born: Lisbon Signed from: Benfica (LOAN) January - May 1999

Debut: 30 January 1999 vs Everton

One of Big (Fat) Orange Ron's better efforts - so why didn't he play him until it was all too late?

A Portuguese international, Porfirio had a brief spell at West Ham, where the fans loved him but he didn't really settle. After returning to Lisbon with Benfica, he showed that he is a man of taste and discernment by cordially loathing Graeme Souness, who became Benfica's manager shortly after Hugo arrived. Hence the fact that he was available for loan.

Porfirio is skillful, small and tricky - a real menace running at defenders. The clown Atkinson used him merely as a sub for 5 or 10 minutes for his first 2 months at the club, during which time the fans saw what he had to offer and liked what they saw. Only for the final three games of the season, after we had been relegated, did Hugo play from the start. He continued to impress and we won all 3 games.

Porfirio was not remotely interested in playing in Division 1, and anyway by the end of the season Souness had been sacked by Benfica, so he went back to Portugal to try to revive his career.


Daryll Powell

Position: Midfield Born: - Signed from: Colorado Rapids, 10 February 2005

Debut: 19 February 2005 vs Tottenham Hotspur (FA Cup 5th Round) D 1-1 Sold to: Released, 9 May 2005.

Ex-Sheffield Wednesday and Derby County clogger-I-mean-battling-midfield-player, approaching the end of his career. He'd been training with Forest for a while before Gary Megson signed him to try to add some badly-needed steel to our powderpuff midfield. The kindest thing you can say about him is that he never stopped trying, but otherwise he remains one of the worst players I've ever seen in a red shirt - at one particular away game (against Watford, when he even laid on a goal), his control was so poor that the entire crowd was laughing, and I overheard a Hornets fan asking incredulously how that man ever made a living as a professional footballer. Fair question.

The crowing turd in the water-pipe (if Lord Blackadder will allow me to steal a phrase) was at Loftus Road in April 2005; Forest simply had to win the game to have any chance of staying up, yet Powell contrived to get himself two yellow cards inside 20 minutes, and thus hammered the final nail into Forest's coffin with one of the crasser displays of leadership I've witnessed recently. At the time I expressed the earnest hope that I'd never see him in the Garibaldi again, so it was with great relief that I saw his name on the list of players released the following week.

Bloody awful.


Mark Proctor

Position: Midfield Born: Middlesbrough Signed from: Middlesbrough, August 1981

Debut: 29 August 1981 vs Southampton Sold to: Sunderland, March 1983

An attacking midfield player who had impressed in Boro's midfield alongside the young Souness, Proctor followed Ponte in the Great Archie Gemmill Replacement Stakes. He wasn't brilliant, frankly - too sluggish (though to be fair to him he was feeding the lamentable Justin Fashanu).

Then Steve Hodge emerged from the youth team and Cloughie realised he'd made a mistake in selling Ian Bowyer. Proctor went to Sunderland shortly after Bowyer's return from Sunderland - and it was Forest who got the good deal!


Adam Proudlock

Position: Forward Born: Newport, 9 May 1981Signed from: Wolverhampton Wanderers (LOAN), March 2002

Debut: 22 March 2002 vs West Bromwich Albion

Signed on loan once Forest were safe at the end of Paul Hart's first season, so we could have a look at him - at the time Wolves looked nailed-on certainties to go up, and he was obviously not in Dave Jones' plans for the Premiership. He was nothing like fit, and thus a pale shadow of the confident mobile player who had scored against us the previous season. In fact, though his first touch was good and he appeared to have decent instincts, he failed to impress at all, and didn't score despite having several golden opportunities. He was soon on his way back, especially as Wolves contrived to blow a massive lead and head once more for the play-offs.

Not the man we needed.


David Prutton

Position: Midfield Born: Hull, 12 September 1981 Signed from: Academy, August 1998

Debut: 22 September 1999 vs Bristol City Sold to: Southampton, January 2003 (£2,500,000)

There were not many unreservedly positive things to come from the 1999-2000 season. David Prutton was unquestionably one of them.

Prutts started life as a defender, but gradually moved forwards into midfield, where he soon found himself playing alongside Joe Cole for the England Under-18s. He was at the vanguard of a truly outstanding generation of young players emerging from Paul Hart's Academy - even allowing for the fact that only a small proportion of apparently brilliant youth players go on to make it all the way, the achievements of the Academy have been truly exceptional; arguably, the place has saved Forest from extinction altogether. The press will always tell you that West Ham have the best youth system in the country, yet in 2000-2001, for instance, Forest's young sides beat them 4-1 at home and 5-1 away, remaining unbeaten in all competitions until well into March. The following season they lost only once in retaining their title. More of a point, the club's ability to produce the likes of Prutton, Michael Dawson and Jermaine Jenas gave them rare substantial finacial assets at a time when everything else on the balance sheet was turning to dust.

But I digress. In Autumn 1999 Prutts played in a reserve match against a strong Chelsea side, and after the game Luca Vialli and David Platt (the best of friends, remember) agreed that he was easily the best player on the pitch - Vialli even put in a cheeky bid for him! A week or two later Forest, with half the first team out injured, played Prutton in a Worthington Cup game at Bristol City, and he was superb - man of the match. From that point onwards he missed only a handful of games, and by the end of the season it was inconceivable that he would be dropped - and he had been called up to the England Under-21 squad whilst still only 18.

Prutton's greatest asset is his "engine" - his ability get up and down the pitch all afternoon. But he has many other attributes, notably a good range of passing, excellent tackling ability and a terrific attitude. His biggest weakness is the fact that he doesn't score anything like the number of goals he should, plus of course his disciplinary record - not that he is mardy or anything, just that his obvious commitment has led him to mistime a few tackles too many, with the inevitable yellow or red consequences. As he was the first to admit, he needed to curb this side of his game; under Paul Hart he tried to do so, but he is the style of player who will always tend to get booked.

That apart, until Jenas followed him, Prutton was the best player to emerge from Forest's youth system since Roy Keane - David Platt described him as "better than Paul Ince, especially at taking care of one side of the field on his own" (and Ince was playing for England at Euro 2000 at the time).

In July 2000 Prutts signed a new 4-year contract for Forest, but a few Premiership clubs were already sniffing around even then, and they continued to do so after a patchy second season where Prutts started relatively poorly by his own high standards, but recovered (especially when played correctly in the centre of midfield rather than out wide) to finish strongly. He carried this into the 2001 -2002 season, when he was generally excellent, eclipsing the languid Gareth Williams, especially in the affections of the fans. He is tremendous when closing players down and running at defences with the ball at his feet, though his final ball and especially the accuracy of his shooting still needed to develop.

Prutton is intelligently aware that he still has much to learn, despite the obvious talent that saw figures like £5M being bandied about in the papers even early in his career. At the time he was intelligent enough to know that he was more likely to continue to develop as a player by being an automatic choice for Forest than by getting splinters in his bum at a Premiership club. After all, time was on his side.

However, eventually his ambition outgrew Forest's rate of improvement. Offered a new contract early in 2003, he turned it down, and from then on it was only a metter of time before Forest's finances dictated that we sold him before his value dwindled to zero. When Southampton came in with an offer on the last day of the transfer window in Jan 2003, Paul Hart - rightly in my view - took the view that the fee represented the best balance between finance and football; there was just the suspiscion starting to grow that Prutts was not going to develop far beyond the player he already was. Besides, Eugen Bopp appeared a ready made replacement, and we desperately needed the money.

Those of us who love Forest used to prick our ears up when we heard Prutton say that what he really wanted was to captain a successful Forest side in the Premiership, built around the friends he grew up with at the Academy, along the lines of the outstanding Leeds side that came so close to the 2001 Champions League Final. But then we all know what happened to that Leeds side, don't we, and why should Forest be exempt from the market forces that assail about 85 of the 92 League clubs?

All the same, Forest fans were desperately sorry to see him go, and just like his best friend JJ, we wish him well wherever he plays. It remains to be seen whether he has reached the limit of his ability, or whether he will continue to grow at Saints (despite their relegation in 2005!)